[Rhonda]: So first the threshold between,
you know, like you’re mentioning the threshold between when you’re actually getting rid of
intracellular compartments through autophagy, clearing away protein aggregates, pieces of
DNA and things like that, but also, and damaged mitochondria, but also the clearing away of
complete cells, and particularly damaged cells, which is very interesting to me, because as
you mentioned, you’ve shown this now and there’s two different animal models for autoimmune
disease, one was multiple sclerosis and the other was the, I think type 1 diabetes. [Valter]: Yeah, ours was not, that one particularly
wasn’t, was not autoimmune. We’re doing the autoimmune. There’s type 1 induced by, pharmacological
induced. [Rhonda]: Okay. So it has potential for… [Valter]: Yeah, but I can tell you, we’ve
now confirmed it with all the autoimmune diseases. So I think it’s going to be applicable to
many autoimmune diseases. [Rhonda]: So this is what’s so cool because,
I mean, the, you know, the potential for this type of fasting to cause cells that are preferentially
damaged to be cleared away by apoptosis, which makes sense. I mean, I spent six years studying apoptosis
and cells that are damaged preferentially die, I can tell you from doing multiple, multiple
experiments. [Valter]: Even during development, right? In development. I mean, that’s the way that the good and the
bad are… [Rhonda]: Right. It’s also how cancer cells are primed to die
as well, because cancer cells are damaged. They are mutated and completely damaged, and
that may be also why they’re very sensitive to stress. [Valter]: Yeah, and also, I mean, something
that is a speculation but we’re starting to think more and more, or at least I’m starting
to think more and more, is that…You know, I always say if you cut yourself, it doesn’t
matter where you cut yourself or if you hurt your head, the system repairs it, right? Or repairs almost anything. And so what about the inside? You know, is it possible that we never developed
a way to fix damaged organs and various systems? So we’re starting to think that maybe fasting
represents that opportunity to fix the inside, right? And maybe, and just maybe, because everybody
had to do it by force, they were forced to do it because there was no food at some point
of your month, almost unavoidably you probably were with no food. And so because it was almost unavoidable,
it was probably something that…you know, I always also think about sleep, right? And in sleep you feel so tired that you have
to sleep. Because obviously people wouldn’t have gone
to sleep just on their own right? But in the case of fasting, because it was
imposed by the environment, I suspect that maybe we never developed something that forces
you to fast. And so now that we eat all the time, which
completely lost this auto-repair mode, right? And this could be remarkable because imagine
if we had this ability if you have damaged liver, that fixes it. If you have damaged immune cells that are
autoimmune, that clears it. And so you never develop defense against autoimmunity
because fasting always took care of it. Now all of a sudden you get rid of fasting,
and all these things start building up, whether it’s insulin resistance, or liver damage,
fatty liver, etc., etc., right? So, this could be really…and people always
are surprised when we say, you know, we’re publishing on all these different diseases,
but if that’s true, then that make sense, right? [Rhonda]: Right. [Valter]: Because for example, in multiple
sclerosis, you see on one side it kills the immune cells. It then turns on the stem cells, then turns
on the oligodendrocytes, progenitor, and replace…I mean, it’s very…it’s like, how the hell
does it know how to do all of this? And it does it all in such a sophisticated
manner. But if it was an evolved process, that would
make a lot of sense. [Rhonda]: The thing that’s so interesting
is how the stem cells, you know, the clearing away of these damaged cells through apoptosis,
activating these stem cells which then have to repopulate whatever organ or tissue we’re
talking about, how they actually can make normal life cell. You’re talking about in the case at least
for autoimmunity or type 1 diabetes or multiple sclerosis, how they make their immune cells
normal, that is so… [Valter]: Yeah, but that makes sense, right? Because if you turn on a stem cell, you imagine
now that the…you’re not going to turn on a damaged stem cell, there’s got to be a selection
process to pick the…So the stem cell is now of course going to give rise to normal
white blood cells, right? They wouldn’t have any way to make an autoimmune
cell. So, I mean…yeah. So because that happens I think in the differentiated
cell, the clonal, so you expand already the differentiated cell. So even I think theoretically that makes perfect
sense that once you turn on the stem cell, the hematopoietic stem cell, you will make
a healthy…Now, you can always turn the healthy cells into autoimmune cell, but at least initially
you will make a healthy one, and that’s exactly what we see happening.